Feisworld_Podcast_-_1910_-_Tammy_Loeb.mp3 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best way to convert your audio to text in 2019.
Tammy:
You know, when you think about what these people went through so that I could have this life. I don’t take that for granted for one minute. I just knew t hat I wanted to do something I could feel some ownership of and really put my mark on it, but also to help people.
Tammy:
If I could put together a group of people like that who could both be in community with one another, not feel so alone with it, and inspire and encourage one another and bring their wisdom to something like that. I think that would be really instrumentals. I was raised to believe that success looked like this. You know, you go to school, you develop a profession, you meet somebody, you get married, you have two point three children, and you you follow this path. And I’m sort of painting a very conventional picture. But, you know, whatever that image of success was for you. And and then you follow that path and you realize actually that I don’t really like this. I need to do something else to feel successful. I think we really have to be far more mindful of what success means to us and to really we owe it to ourselves to go after whatever that is for us, or at least to try to discover what that is.
Fei:
Hey, hello there. This is Feisworld and you’re listening to a regular interview episode of the podcast.
Fei:
I’m so thrilled that you’re here. There’s so many podcasts to choose from. And I appreciate your attention today. I have Tammy Gooler Loeb on the show with us. She is a career and executive coach. We’ve had a few season coaches on the show so far, but they’re all quite different in terms of their backgrounds. Customers, they serve and generally how they run their businesses. It’s fascinating for many of us to see how coaches can enhance our personal and professional lives in significant ways. And in turn, they’ve built empires as coaches themselves, often working from homes, choosing the kinds they enjoy working with. Quite a win win career choice on its own. Tammy isn’t just a coach. She’s also part of a thriving podcast. Her community with me called Old Podcasters, started by Fay’s world since October 2000 and 17. And I’m thrilled to see her launching her own show. As of December 2018, this episode is for those of you who have hit a plateau in your career. Not that you are ready to leave, but perhaps not sure where you’re gonna go from here. Tami coaches a number of clients in their 40s and 50s who are struggling with the same thing. Together, we explore Tammy’s business setup as a coach and how she’s able to maintain a stable income while working as an entrepreneur with a coaching business. Look, whether you’re an entrepreneur or freelancer, your income may be unpredictable at times. Tammy shared a great secret of hers to put you back in the driver’s seat. Are you a new podcast? Her work hard Hester to be. This is a great episode for you to hear firsthand from a new podcast. Or like Tammy. She speaks to her learning as a podcast, where her interaction with her guests on the show and how it changed her life and perspectives. Already it’s only been two months.
Fei:
It’s not all rainbows and unicorns, but surely is worth it. Within the release of her first 10 episodes, some magic already began to spark. These are the behind the scenes stories I wish more creators will share with a community. Hey, if you’re enjoying listening to Face World and the things we do for our community, for our people, our creators, please consider joining our newsletter and our tribe of face world dot com for slash newsletter. I prepared an instant gift for you right there to download, which is a guide called How I Made a Living and built a business with my podcast. Without further ado, please welcome Tammy Shuler Loeb to the Phaser Old Podcast.
Fei:
Have you ever thought about the fact that, you know, being Jewish and then knowing all these crazy stories of your ancestors and the struggles that they had to live through? When I think people understand what it entails. You know, like does it make you feel like your life? In a way is almost more spectacular and two or more random or more responsibilities involved? Like a do you feel that way? Just like not only just religious aspect of faith? Listen. Good question, actually. I mean, my my grandparents I only had one grandparent who was a young adult when he came over here. He was much older than the others.
Tammy:
He actually fought in World War One for the Americans. So he came over here when he was 20. I don’t know what propelled him to come over here. I should ask my father while my father’s still alive. You know, my my other grandparents were such young children. So it would probably be more like what their parents had to endure to get them over here. And I don’t know a whole lot about that. But here’s the interesting thing. I have made the assumption for many, many years that because my grandparents came over here as young children and because there was so much destruction of their property when they left, my grandmother was able to tell me the story of the soldiers coming into her house and she and her brother hiding under the bed as young children and. You know, they came in and just demolished their houses. I know that my mother in law had a similar experience, although she would never talk about it in where she lived in Berlin. You know, I just think I think about the way I grew up. I when I was when I was little, we had the Vietnam War. I remember the casualty reports on the radio. It never meant anything to me because I was so little or we had air raid drills in school. You know, we had fire drills. Right. You know, everybody gets out of their chair and goes outside and, you know, in a formation because it’s a fire drill. But we also had these air raid drills where they had a different alarm that would go off. We’d have to go to the closet, get our coats, put them over our heads, go into the hallway in school and crouch down with our coats over our heads.
Fei:
How old were you? Like an elementary school?
Tammy:
I was a little kid. I was, you know, six, five, six, seven, eight years old, maybe. I had no idea why we were doing that. And I never questioned it. It’s funny. I was a kid who question things, but that wasn’t something I questioned. So my point is that my ancestors went through a lot to get over here. I’m aware that I don’t know just how much they saw or what they endured exactly. But at what occurs to me as I’ve grown up for the most part in a very peaceful time in this country, I’ve always had a roof over my head. Always had food on the table. Always felt loved. I didn’t grow up with a lot of wealth, but I grew up, you know, probably middle, upper middle class. You know, I’ve had but I would say I’ve had the privilege of safety. Security. You know, a decent, good family, a decent education, all those things. And so it’s so easy to sort of, you know, when you think about what these people went through so that I could have this life. I don’t take that for granted for one minute. I don’t know that I think about it often enough. But I do think that, you know, and this is why I’m doing my my podcast is to say to people, look, you’ve been blessed with all these things. Most of us, not everyone, but most of us. Don’t just squander it. Go into work every day like, you know, as a miserable person just for a paycheck. Find a way to makes may make meaning out of it. Don’t just keep going to this job and hating every minute of it. I know lots of people who are doing that. And I part of me almost feels angry with them for doing that. When did you realize that it was a bad choice? You know, I know you’ve been Tammy.
Fei:
You’ve been an executive coach for a very long time. I know that I I had lots of jobs before that, too. And I had several jobs where I was unhappy. And, you know, when you think about it, what’s that expression? When you leave a job, you’re actually leaving a boss? Not necessarily the job.
Tammy:
And I would say that that was true for me and many in many circumstances where I was either in an organizational culture or working under a boss who I just didn’t agree with on some things. And it made it very hard to go to work. And it’s hard to wake up in the morning and not want to go to this place where you’re spending eight to 10 to 12 hours a day.
Fei:
You know, like what is the what are some of the examples or scenarios you’ve seen of people not liking their jobs using? That’s a majority or a minority of the people. I think I’ve heard a statistic. But, you know, when you hear statistics, I know how some of those statistics are formed, because I used to work in in government where we had to put statistics out there to inform or educate the public on certain things.
Tammy:
And I know that half of those numbers are, you know, they’re based on some reality. But I have heard something like 50 percent or more of people don’t like their jobs or don’t like their workplace. I’m guessing the number is even higher than that. I, like part of me, feels judgmental about it. Another part of me feels compassionate about it, that there are so many people who seem to just think this is like when I hear someone say under any circumstance, I say, well, I didn’t have a choice. I had to do this or that. And I’m thinking, well, I’m sure there are cases where that’s true. But more often than not, I would say you probably did have a choice. You just didn’t like the choices that you had in front of you. And so you assumed that you were stuck or you let yourself. It’s like having a scarcity mentality, right? I don’t have a choice. This is what this is the the cards I’ve been dealt. I have to deal with it. Or. Well, that’s just who I am. I hear people say that’s just who I am. And they’re usually kind of making excuses for a part of them that doesn’t necessarily serve them very well.
Fei:
I over the years, I, too, found myself in various situations. And we talked about the jobs I loved very much. And then the jobs, I felt absolutely miserable. And I think when we reached that point that was so intense and I realized, you know what, tonight I’m going back on LinkedIn. I got my plan. So, yeah, and I think there are also people in that space where they don’t necessarily hate their jobs, but they know they should get out and grow because, you know, they’re kind of reached the ceiling, either the glass ceiling or just a john or a ceiling or they’ve hit a plateau of some type, you know, where they’re just like they don’t they don’t feel like there’s any way to grow or they or the directions in which growth is available to them there. It doesn’t appeal to them in some way. Yeah, exactly. How should someone look at that scenario? Yeah, that’s a great question. And in fact, you just hit a nail on a head for me, because one of the things that I’m contemplating doing is starting some kind of online community group course. I I’m still developing it very early stages for exactly those people, for those people who are employed or maybe are in between jobs, but have reached a point where they’re saying, you know, I kind of would like to make a change, but it’s not that I’m really unhappy or miserable.
Tammy:
But I I’d like to think there’s something more. But do I allow myself to even entertain that idea? And I’ve had a number of former clients of mine in that same age group who have said, you know, maybe I’ll do more coaching with you. You know, I’m not quite ready yet. I’ve heard a lot of that. Like I and I think when I hear that, I’m not quite ready yet. I think there’s a little fear underneath that because you’ve worked yourself to a certain point, your career, your life. You get comfortable with certain things. And the idea of kind of opening up something, you know, it could turn out, you’re opening things up and you’re gonna discover more and more things you really aren’t that happy about or that you really would like to change. And then you’re wondering, do I have the stamina, the energy band with the emotional bandwidth to really. And do this and I’m thinking if I could put together a group of people like that who could both be in community with one another, not feel so alone with it, and inspire and encourage one another and bring their wisdom to something like that. I think that would be really instrumental. So I think that there are ways to work with that. I think it’s first of all, you have to have some willingness to want to take a look in the mirror and say, you know, this is who I’ve been, who do I want to be now? What would be different from where I am now? Is it about a job change or is it about having a discussion with my boss, maybe about tweaking some of my responsibilities? I think sometimes when we think about making a change, we think about that it has to be something big or, oh, you know. You know, all or nothing kind of thing. We either do it all or we don’t do it at all. You got to go from A to Z rather than going from A to B to C to D. And I think that the people that I’ve been talking to on my podcast, for example, who have made some significant transitions, they didn’t do it overnight. They did it very thoughtfully and planned fully. And they gave themselves some time to kind of discover for themselves what was going to work for them. Essentially, the thing that I think is really key, I think, is don’t do it alone and it doesn’t have to be with a coach. But I do think that when you’re thinking about at least taking a look and evaluating where am I now? Where would I like to be? What would that look like? Maybe I don’t know exactly what it would be, but I have some ideas about the qualities. What do what would it feel like? What would it taste like? What would it smell like? You know, just giving yourself a sense of what that experience might be and notice, you know, does it do you feel like when you start to have those thoughts about what could possibly be next, you start to get excited or do you get scared or you know, or do you start getting onto the Internet and start looking things up? You know, what gets stirred within you is sometimes fear and excitement can feel like the same thing anyway. Could you? Yeah.
Fei:
Describe sort of the feeling how how if what it feels like, what it tastes like, the colors and the sensations inside of you. Now you’ve launched, I know, eight or nine episodes. I was on your let’s see, eight episodes so far. What does it feel like to be a relatively new podcast with eight episodes in the market?
Tammy:
You know, it’s a great question. I it feels like it was a long time coming. I almost feel I’m still learning a lot as I go along. Mostly on the technical side of things. But there is another part of me that feels like I’ve been doing this for a long time already, that my sort of natural curiosity and enthusiasm for talking to people about what they do, what their journeys have been, and and how happy or not happy they’ve been along the way and how happy they are now.
It’s amazing how natural it has felt.
And I’m I have to say, I’ve surprised myself with the way I’ve jumped into it.
Not I mean, it took me a long time to plan it out and figure out what I needed to do to get it launched.
But once I launched, it didn’t I don’t feel like I’ve only been doing this two months.
And in fact, it’s interesting.
I do do a little pre interview chat with my guests, mostly because I want to make sure that whatever we talk about is something that matters to them because I feel like I want to shine a light on them.
I figure whatever my presence is on the podcast, that will show up as me being me and people will get that.
But I I really feel like I have a role responsibility and a desire to really shine a light on the people I interview and to share their fascinating, intriguing, exciting stories with the world.
Hi there, this is Faye Wu, and I’m your host for this podcast called Phase World Today on the show. Please join me and Tammy Goulet Loeb, who is a career and executive coach. Tammy is part of Faye’s world’s ultra podcasters community, created for podcasters who are rethinking and reinventing the way we make our podcasts. Tammy just launched her podcast called Work from the Inside Out.
What are your thoughts on your thoughts on exchanging the interviews? You know, like, do you think it helps podcasters to kind of get to know each other, have to interview each other and such like how do you deal with that?
There is there is something maybe a little incestuous about podcasters interviewing one another, except that from my perspective, given what my podcast is about, it’s actually very appropriate because most of the people and most people in general have had more than one career. And so I’m trying to learn about how people make these transitions, you know, and I think that people who podcast enjoy what they’re doing. Why would they do it otherwise? Right. I mean, that would be my thought. So it’s felt fine to me. But I also want to make sure that I’m telling, you know, stories of other people who wouldn’t be your typical outgoing podcasting person, let’s say.
But it’s inspiring, too. It’s inspired.
Just I love being around people who are creative or trying to create something, trying to send a message.
They’re not just getting up and doing the same thing day after day is so like what isn’t measurable or tangible results often being talked about in the market today is so opposite of what we as creators experience. Whether I’ve been doing it for four years, been doing for two months, doesn’t matter.
How do you measure success like that? I mean, to me that is just incredible.
If I were to score that, that is like a mega check plus and beyond of a guest on your show getting to know a new client who knows a claim for I don’t care, a one month or could be 10 years. Yeah.
I mean, I love the question about success because I do think that a lot of the conversations I’m having with people, with my clients, with my podcast guest is all about oftentimes here’s what I thought success was supposed to look like. And so I was raised to believe that success look like this. You know, you go to school, you develop a profession, you meet somebody, you get married, you have two point three children. You know, you you you follow this path. And I’m sort of painting a very conventional picture. But, you know, whatever that image of success was for you. And and then you follow that path and you realize actually that I don’t really like this.
I need to do something else to feel successful. So I think that our definition of success, we really have to take stop and take a take stock of what what’s going to really be rewarding for us.
Isn’t that what being successful is about is what’s the reward? Now, for some people, they think being successful is making a lot of money. I’ve been talking to a lot of people lately who are saying, yeah, I want to make money, I have to make money. But that is definitely not what’s going to leave me feeling successful. I think we really have to be far more mindful of what what success means to us and to really we owe it to ourselves to go after whatever that is for us, or at least to try to discover what that is, I think.
So how did you what was the path like your origin story to find your success?
And I know it was.
And for me, continues to be very erratic, iterative process. And my success, what I look like in 2017 compared to 18 compared to this year, already different.
We’re talking about a three year, two year span right now. Like so is it possible for you to kind of bring us back to, as you mentioned, maybe 20 years ago, 15, 20 years ago when you started your coaching practice? Who were the first few clients, even if you don’t have to mention them by name? But how did you even identify that’s who they are? I like this is the service you’re going to offer to them. I love it. I was already in the middle of my coaching program and I was at a family party.
And one of my husband’s cousin’s wives, I was starting to tell her about my coaching program and what I was interested in in terms of a coaching practice, and she just said, I really need you. She became my first paying coaching client.
I decided from day one I wanted it to be a referral based business. I didn’t want to spend a lot of money or time like advertising, nor we’re talking 20 years ago. You know, things were very different then in terms of how you got your message out and how you engaged people. And I still think word of mouth is the most powerful of anything. Back then, it was even you know, there are many more options now than there were then, I think.
And so that’s what I kept doing from from day one onward.
And it’s been an almost entirely referral based business because of that.
I try to remember like 20, 20 years ago, we’re talking about around 2000 or a little before. A little after that.
Yeah, right around that time I think I started my my coaching program and certification in nineteen ninety eight or ninety nine. I had a young child already so I had other and I had I was working so I was fitting everything in. But you know at that time I just knew that I wanted to do something I could feel some ownership of and really put my mark on it, but also to help people, just to help people have a better quality of life. I always wanted to help people. So so most of my career really did include that. But I did reach a point where I was doing a lot of work that really didn’t I didn’t feel like I was helping anybody. So that’s when I started to look and I found out about coaching and then literally hit the ground running in no time. I mean, I heard about it, spoke to one coach, looked into a few programs, signed up for the Coaches Training Institute and literally got on a plane every month for those next four months and flew to different locations to get the classes in because I couldn’t wait to do it. I think I borrowed money from my parents and then I did the certification program.
And I gotta say, like, first of all, congrats.
18 years, 19, nearly 19 years later, you’ve been doing this.
And if I understand correctly, you never went back to a full time job. No, I think for a few years what I did was I had a part time job, sort of a little bit of a financial anchor. I mean, I was married and had a full time salary that my husband brought in, although there was a short period of time where he was out of work for a little while.
And we did rely on my part time job, which fortunately gave me benefits at the time.
But I did hold down a while. I was in the middle of my coaching, training and certification.
I was working part time as an administer program administrator at Tufts University and that was a really interesting job. So I actually liked that when I got to work with students there and I got to run helped run a program.
It was great. But then within a few years of that and getting my certification, I was really ready to go out on my own. And that’s when I went on my own. So I had finished my certification, I think. And then at that juncture, I think I had enough clients and, you know, probably had enough of a conversation with my husband to say I’d really like to do this full time now. And one thing that’s been really helpful, though, I will say and I think this is I’ve been very fortunate over the years that I’ve been out on my own.
I’ve always had some kind of project or contract with an organization where they would hire me for an entire year to do something for them.
And it might only be maybe 20 hours a month at most. Not a lot of time.
Some maybe it would take up 10 or 20 percent of my revenue, but I always had some kind of steady consulting work or something that’s always been in place. And for about 12 years, I worked with public schools, facilitating school improvement teams and helping them with school improvement planning. And the same time that that dried up. I got this wonderful contract with the United Way to do some work with with organizations that work with low income populations, teaching them coaching skills to use coaching skills with these low income populations.
So really trying to build more empowerment into working with folks who are struggling rather than just helping them.
Teaching them to help themselves have been really, really fortunate in that way, to always have that kind of steadiness, because all my other work, it kind of ebbs and flows and comes and goes. You have to be tolerant of that kind of ebb and flow to work this way.
Hi there, this is Faye Woo. And I’m your host for this podcast called Phase World Today on the show. Please join me and Tammy Goulet Loeb, who is a career and executive coach. Tammy is part of Faye’s world’s ultra podcasters community, created for podcasters who are rethinking and reinventing the way we make our podcasts. Tammy just launched her podcast called Work from the Inside Out.
I mean, that’s that’s that’s such great advice because as you know, a lot of people before they can transition from full time to freelance, they have to burn the midnight oil, whatever, and have to start to gain freelance clients.
And while they still have full time jobs and, you know, do you find that, you know, 10, 15, 20 percent of the revenue that you gather from these jobs working part time for these organizations?
All of the above, you know, financial, financial, spiritual, emotional satisfaction, like all of the above. I mean, financially, you know, when you talk about schools or United Way non-profit, you know, we’re talking very modest rates of pay, but it’s steady money that’s coming in. It’s solid, you know.
And I would say, though, that greater benefit is is the fact that I I can see the impact of what I’m doing. I’ve developed great relationships with people. And as a result of that work, it’s led to other projects and other things because people know who I am now and they know what I’m capable of. So I’ve been invited to facilitate board retreats or teach coaching classes and other places, both for profit and nonprofit. So it’s all these relationships that get developed over time.
And when you work with.
It’s like it’s like having the benefit of having sort of sort of co-workers in some ways, even though I’m not really an employee, I get the benefit of the relationships. But I don’t have to get immersed in any of the organizational politics which I love. Me too. And I’m so glad you brought up the marketing aspect of things, because it frustrates me somehow when I talk to freelancers or creators who say I want to do the work, but I really hate marketing or I already did this piece of marketing, whether it’s social media or me speaking in an event.
And there’s no new client turn out from that crowd and it was a waste of my time.
But at the same time, I’m also quite understanding of that because it is hard when we have to work and market ourselves and worry about collection, invoicing, collection.
This, you know, like as you said, Tami, I heard I use some time old travel, drive an hour to go somewhere sometime. That’s nights and weekends. How do you parse that out? How do you interpret that? Or your message for perhaps the next generation of freelancers and coaches? Like how do you balance and pass these things out? What’s worth it? What you mean? Well, I think it’s trial and error. There are times where I actually just had a conversation with somebody about this earlier today about, you know, there are times where I’ll get invited to speak somewhere, but they don’t have any money to pay me. And then I have to decide whether it doesn’t matter. I I do believe in karma. I believe that what comes around goes around that if you put good things out there in the world somewhere, it will come back. It just may not come back from the same place.
I have to say that over time, I’ve gotten a little bit more restricted about some of that because there have been times where I put myself out there to do something. And, you know, it’s not even whether it pays off or not. It’s just the feeling I get the feeling that when you offer something pro bono, you want it to feel valued in some way. And I will I have started saying no to some things. And it’s not about the money per say, but it is the spirit around it.
So it’s not always tangible.
But I also am aware that I bring 20 years of experience in this. Now to the table. I can’t be running around driving for an hour each way.
So I just try to just say, is this something I want to put myself into? And, you know, do I have the time? Do I have the bandwidth to do it? Will I have the impact? I hope to have. And I you know, I go into it once I decide.
Yes, I stop worrying about all the what ifs. Yeah, it’s worth it. So at this moment in time, like, what are your hopes and dreams and wishes and things, whether it’s self-improvement or something that you want to do for your clients that that you’ve oriented yourself towards for 2019? Well, you know, it’s funny. This year is the first year I think I’ve really kind of envisioned or had a vision. I usually just keep going and I don’t think about things in years.
But this year I have two things.
One is this is my year of saying no. And when I say no, it means I’m saying yes to something else. So, for example, some certain types of requests for either something that’s pro bono or something that I feel is is going to zap my energy rather than fuel me.
So I’m paying attention to that. I’m also trying to make some adjustments in my business and to do activities that will reach more people. I feel like I have a lot of things to share, a lot of good messages to send out there. And I want to reach more people and I can’t do that if I’m always doing one on one coaching.
So I’m changing my I wouldn’t say I’m completely changing my business model, but I’m shifting it in in a way where I’m trying to reach more people in in shorter periods of time. So I’m working on some things around that this sort of group of maybe middle aged or a little later, you know, professionals who are sort of ready for something new, but they’re not really sure what or whether they want to make the jump. But I think there’s there’s some space in there to really maybe create some community around that.
Lovely. And the podcast is such a great step forward.
Imagine anybody in the world right now can tune in and listen to who cares.
One episode, all eight episodes anywhere in the world. In your sleep while you’re sleeping. And you well, your message being spread out. It’s just it’s an incredible feeling. And I think sometimes we underappreciated and undervalue the power of that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I for some reason had this idea in my head.
It was completely made up. I thought, well, you know, if I get, you know, 25 to 30, you know, distinct downloads per episode, you know, out of the gate, early, early episodes, they’ll be pretty good.
Well, I’ve had over a hundred downloads, well over one hundred downloads of every episode so far. I feel like I’m excited about what I have to share with people. So, again, there’s no ego in it.
It’s just I just want to share this with everybody. I think it’s wonderful that you touch upon the fact that some people create something that they’re so hesitant to share with the world.
And I know why it’s hard and why it can be hard. I remember the early days of me trying to say hi like whispering I have a podcast. I might not be okay. Like you might like it. It’s someone that we all know. And I remember some of the side eyes I got like, she’s not a speaker. English is not even her first language. And that has been long forgotten. But there was definitely some tension, a peeping thing. People thinking like, is she kidding? Like, you know, what is going on? Really? Yeah, I know. But the thing is, those ideas came from very few people. And yet that’s what set me back emotionally a lot. But we have to look at look to the hundreds of thousands of people who are, you know, really cheering us on and really believe in what we’re doing. Yeah, well, that’s another interesting point. I’ve been talking to people about this lately that, you know, I feel like with this podcast, I’m putting myself out there in ways I never have before.
And it’s been interesting to see who’s really excited about it. And I’m getting great feedback and who has said almost nothing to me about it. And it’s sort of surprising. And I I’m thinking either they don’t realize how much work this has been or what a labor of love this has been for me, or they’re uncomfortable with it in some way, cause some of them have said nothing to me. And I I was a little hurt at first about that. And now I’ve just realized it’s not about me, it’s about them. And so, you know, whatever. If that if they’re not interested, they’re not listening or they don’t want to acknowledge it, to me, there’s nothing I can do about that.
Yeah. Wakening called to to say that, you know, because it’s so open now, anybody could open up a YouTube account, could create a podcast and upload it somewhere. And because it’s so accessible and there’s no excuse to say that Ellen or Oprah didn’t choose me. So now you can do with you. And when you do it and another people chose not to. A really creates that tension that almost like separates you into two completely different cohorts. You came to be friends anymore. And it was like really interesting phenomenon going.
It is. It’s been very interesting. And I’ve decided to see it that way at this point rather than like getting myself all mixed up, you know, emotionally into it.
And it’s not that I’m not emotional. It just, you know, I know that I love what I’m doing. That’s really all I need to know. Yeah. You know, and I know there’s value.
Hi, there is me again. I want to thank you very much for listening to this episode and I hope you were able to learn a few things if you drew what you heard. It will be hugely helpful if you could subscribe to the Face podcast. It literally takes seconds. If you are on your mobile phone, just search for face real podcast in the podcast app on iPhone or an Android app such as podcast addict and click subscribe. All new episodes will be delivered to you automatically. Thanks so much for your support.
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