Tammy Gooler Loeb

Tammy Gooler Loeb: How to Break Through Nine Common Obstacles and Design a Career that Fulfills You (#298)

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Our guest today: Tammy Gooler Loeb

Tammy Gooler Loeb is the author of Work from the Inside Out: Break Through Nine Common Obstacles and Design a Career That Fulfills You. She is a career and executive coach, speaker, and facilitator who focuses on career satisfaction, and leadership development. Tammy’s clients represent many sectors and industries. Tammy’s weekly podcast, Work from the Inside Out, showcases career transition stories of people who found more meaningful work. Her expertise has appeared in Harvard Business Review Ascend, Forbes, Fast Company, The Boston Globe. Tammy holds a B.A. in Psychology from Hampshire College, Amherst, MA, and an MBA from Boston University, Boston, MA.

Released on January 25th 2022

Work From The Inside Out: Break Through Nine Common Obstacles and Design a Career that Fulfills You is an engaging conversation about transforming your limiting beliefs into enduring fulfillment.

Using real-life stories to illustrate the hurdles that can hold you back, my book offers successful strategies and reflective activities that will move your thinking and actions toward new possibilities.

Watch our interview

Transcript

Livestream with Tammy Gooler Loeb: Work from the Inside Out – powered by Happy Scribe

Alright. Hey everyone, this is Fei from FeisWorld Media with me here today, I have a very dear friend, Tammy Gular Lobe who just released a new book today. Boom. Right on the screen. And this is work from the inside out which is really her brand as well. And today we’re going to be discussing the publishing process but more specifically during the pandemic. In the past couple of years it’s been so hard for everyone, especially careerwise, spiritually, professionally, spiritually, financially. So today we’re really going to cover breakthrough, the nine common obstacles and design a career that fulfills you, nobody else but you. And I’m just really excited to have Tammy join me. I feel like this conversation is like long overdue. I’ve witnessed you growing as an author and I know this is not going to be the only book. You’re right. So whoever is watching right now, wherever you are, leave us any comments that you have struggling with, with your careers and I’m going to pitch that to Tammy. So Tammy, you don’t have to worry about it but welcome Tammy. What a day, the loss of your book.

Thank you Faye. And I am so excited to be here with you because you have been on this journey with me through starting the podcast, through writing the book and it just makes perfect sense that we are here together. I wish we were in the same room together but it’s as close as we can get, right?

Yeah, for sure. I’m like going to swap you so you’re more important side. It’s incredible. I mean for people who don’t know what went through, I got to witness iterations of the cover but that’s the least of it right? There’s so much content, planning, writing is just like creative muscles that you need a lot of.

Yeah, it’s true. You know as I’m talking to people and reflecting on it, there are so many moving parts and the writing has been incredible. The writing was actually a lot of fun and it went through several iterations as people have probably heard when people talk about this. But the creative process was something that was really new to me in some ways. I’ve done a lot of writing over the years and even had jobs in the past where writing was a big part of my work but this was a very different experience and it was kind of magical in some ways. There were mornings when I would wake up with ideas in my head. I actually woke up one morning with ideas in my head for an outline for a second book and so that actually is tucked away somewhere. I’m not looking at it right now but I do have some ideas. But it’s so interesting, the whole creative process has been so interesting and now I’m just deeply immersed in the publishing so I never dreamed I’d be doing all of this.

Yeah, like I said, this is not going to be your first and only book. And I think just thinking about that, probably we talked about it as part of our mastermind group, but you have to make a decision. And a lot of people out there, even myself included, guilty of charge that I had been marinating all various ideas, like what is the best one, the one and what Jenny? Right? Like, Jenny let’s just threw this question in front of our screen. Why did you decide to write this book? Why now?

Why now? Well, I’ve been thinking about this for a long time, actually, and really kind of marinating on it, almost like a slow cooker. And then a few years ago, I was sitting around with a few colleagues in our recognized expert community and literally just blurted it out and said, I’m going to write a book next year. And so I guess that was one of those. It felt a little impulsive, but it really was on my mind. It was next on my mind because I wanted to start creating more content. And this is, as you said in the introduction, this really is at the heart of my work. So it was waiting to happen. So why now? Well, the why now keeps changing a little bit, especially now that we’ve got this whole time of the great resignation going on. The book, I think, is even going to be more helpful to people than I ever imagined. But I’ve been deciding to write this book for a long time and now it just seems even more relevant than ever. So I’m tickled that I’ve been able to put this out there for sure.

And there’s so much to tease out. Funny enough, Tammy, my colleagues, my friends and I have been having these conversations on a regular basis. And for people who are watching right now, you know, we’re going to get into these nine common areas. I feel like those are blockers and those are things that really could be very well managed before we freak out, that can be doubted with. So what I’m going to do is kind of go into these areas one at a time because I think it’s such an opportunity just confront these fears and to realize that you have an opportunity at your current job, whether you are a full time or freelancer, to be able to overcome that and live a better life.

Yeah, I started the book off with this particular topic, fear, friend or foe? Because really, fear actually runs through the entire book. And I don’t mean to scare people off, like, you know, the book is all about fear, but I think that fear is at the root of a lot of the things that hold us back from taking some steps to change things in our lives, even if it’s something that we really want. I think sometimes we’d rather deal with the devil we know than the devil we don’t know. People are often afraid of the unknown. But I also call it friend or foe because sometimes, even though we’re afraid of something, it could be something we really want. And so sometimes that feeling of fear, it’s more this sort of anxious anticipation. It’s that something that you’re going to do anyway. So it’s that sense of fear and excitement, actually. Fear can be both a friend and a foe. It can get in your way, it can paralyze you. It can really get you to just you can talk yourself out of anything from a place of fear, but at the same time you can also use it as sort of nervous energy to move forward.

And of course, I encourage people to really stare it in the face and move forward because usually fear is the kind of voice in our heads that is really trying to talk us out of something that we really want. I’m not talking about the kind of fear like, yeah, go ahead and cross the street in front of that car that’s moving. I’m not talking about that. It’s more the kind of thing where there are some voices in your head that are saying, what if this, what if that happens? Maybe I shouldn’t try this or that because something might go wrong, or I don’t want to fail people who are afraid of failure. Or really, when we say that, we’re saying, I’m afraid of learning. Because that’s really what failure is about. When you make a mistake or something doesn’t go the way you expected it to, well, guess what? Most of life goes not the way we expected it to. So that’s how we learn.

Yeah. It’s very revealing. Now, as I’m approaching my late thirty s, I notice that there are certain things we’re so accustomed to that I remember in my early 20s having some thousands of dollars. You feel like, oh, there’s a cushion. Okay, I get to do everything. Now you have three times, ten times that you feel very uneasy because someone else seems to be doing better, making more. They seem to know, they seem to have a clue what this life has to offer, but not everybody does. And another one I kind of want to hop into, that we’ve been talking about. And I appreciate you, Tammy. I know that a lot of these interviews tend to turn into a love fest, but I really do. Because what’s really true about the essence of our relationship is that, number one, you know, it’s so funny. You’re so open and honest and comfortable with your age, and I see you as a young person, period.

Thank you. Thank you.

So you’re vibrant, you’re playful, and you’re optimistic. And that, to me, as a coach, as an executive coach or otherwise, it’s so important that the one thing that you instilled in me, it’s never too late. So for anyone who’s watching this, it’s not too late. If you’re going to need to start another job, another career. You need to become a freelancer. You start your own company. Can we talk about that?

It’s never too late. I love talking about this. Faye, first of all, I always tease you. I’m old enough to be your almost be your mother, if not your much older sister, right?

My mother is older for everybody.

I love coaching. I was not a coach my whole career. I started coaching when I was 40, and I’ve been coaching over 20 years. So you do the math. Okay. So in the book, though, I highlight three stories, all people who started new careers age 40 plus. One of the people I highlight in the book started a new career, a real career pivot at age 58. Another story, I tells the story of one of my favorite cousins who was a teacher and a guidance counselor and then went back and went to law school at the age of 50 and became a lawyer. But I hear people say, oh, I don’t want to start all over again, or I don’t want to take a step back in salary, or I don’t want to pay for school. And I always say to them, listen, then don’t. Don’t do it if you don’t want to do it. But I also say that if you don’t want to do that, think about what is it about that thing that tempts you or that appeals to you that maybe you could incorporate in your life? Or if you don’t want to spend the money on school, what is there something else that you can do that might feed your soul in some way, but don’t just do this all or nothing kind of thinking, I’m just too old, I can’t do it because that’s not true.

You can do it. You’re choosing not to.

Very true. And questions are hopping in. I’m going to respect people’s comments and questions. I know you asked them. Can you share an example where two that might help someone to feel like it might be too late for them? How do they change their mindset? How do they make that leap forward?

Yeah, well, I think one example might be that let’s say, let’s say they want first of all, it’s like how many psychiatrists does it take to get someone to change a light bulb? It only takes one. But they have to want to change, right? Well, they have to want to be open to it. So the first thing is that if someone has picked up my book and they’re reading that chapter and they are, let’s say 40 plus, 45 plus, and they’re thinking and they were thinking it was too late, now they’re open to the idea. That’s the first step, right. It’s just being open to what’s possible. And then I would say start talking to people, start looking at other examples. First of all, read my book, right? And then call me. I’ll give you lots of other examples of people that I’ve either worked with or know of who’ve done this. I once helped a woman 70 years old get a fulltime job. So I think that it’s important to kind of unpack. What are the things that you feel are making it too late for you? What are the things that you’re unwilling to do?

What are the things that you might be willing to compromise on or be flexible on? What are you telling yourself is impossible? And then if those are things that you’re still choosing not to do, that’s a choice you’re making. But if you’re telling yourself, I can’t because of one thing or another that isn’t really true, you have to have that conversation with yourself. But I think it’s really an important thing is to just take a couple of steps back and look at what are the actual reasons you’re giving yourself for not doing something and ask yourself how badly you want it. I’m not trying to say that everybody who has a desire to do something should absolutely do it. I think the other scenario that I paint to some people is to say, you know, if you can imagine yourself this is a little morbid, but if you can imagine yourself on your deathbed and you say to yourself, you know what? I would regret it if I didn’t at least try something along these lines, there’s your answer for sure.

Love this. This is a very juicy conversation, and here’s a very honest excuse. I’ve seen many times, and I work with clients who, especially when they transition from fulltime to freelance, they’re so much happier, but they walk into that domain with a lot of responsibilities, including folks I know who is the only source of income for the family, having kids in college or getting into college. Frankly, I had that fear too. I remember freelancing. Where does health insurance come from? And it’s very doable for you guys who have questions for health insurance, please do ask briefly here. But there are a lot of things that can be figured out. And I also think, especially for women, I constantly hear, like, wait until my college and my kids go to college, until they graduate, until my husbands are comfortable, everyone else is okay, then I will do this.

Right. So this is a little bit of a trickier one, though, and I think you just pointed out some of the factors that do hold people back. I think that there is a fear underlying this. A fear usually it’s tied somehow to finances or just a sense of responsibility and obligation that I couldn’t possibly start something new now or I don’t have the time because all these other people need me. And I think that you really have to, again, take a step back and really look at your life and ask yourself, are these things all taking over my life to the extent that I really can’t even dip a toe in the water. The stories that I highlight in the book in this chapter, the two people that I focus on, they spent years they were both working parents. One of them was a single parent, actually, and they both spent years making their I’ll call it their dream job. And I don’t always like to use that term because I don’t believe that you have to find your dream job or your passion to be happy. But they both spent years working on that before they actually got to where they wanted to go.

So what I would say to people if they think they have too many responsibilities, is we’re not suggesting I am not we, me, myself and I. I am not suggesting that you just drop everything and shirk all your responsibilities and go out and do whatever you want to do. It’s not an all or nothing kind of equation. I would say come up with a plan, start to plan for it, and work your way toward it. But if you’re just telling yourself it’s not possible, and then not even at least putting it in your vision, then I think you’re short changing yourself. So that’s really what this chapter is about. It’s not about it’s about taking that excuse, kicking it to the curb, and starting to make a plan. And it may be a longterm plan, but it’s definitely possible.

I’m going to just drop one of my personal questions because I’m seeing 810 people hop on at a time. I know you’re not always the same. Eight to ten people. Do let us know yes or no. Have you reimagined your career in the past one to two years? I hate to keep calling out the pandemic, because I know that the pandemic has kind of accelerated a lot of thinking and growth in a way as traumatic as it has been for everyone. But this act, I mean, this behavior surfaced long before the pandemic. And I love your idea, Tammy, and all the examples in your book just so relatable. Having the plan is essential for me. For instance, understanding my spending behavior, what I need to be comfortable, be realistic. And then oftentimes you actually find out that you need a lot less than you thought you did. And it’s funny, like, I go through this. I talked to my close friends who are very smart, went to good schools to say, how much do you think you need for retirement or to live a comfortable life? I often hear the numbers $10 million, often hear the number five to $10 million.

And that’s people’s imagination. But knowing once you break down your costs, you will know that you probably need a lot less than that, and therefore you have more freedom. I love this part. That this next topic. Careers are not formed in a straight line. And I’m taking standing all these chapter headings from Tammy’s new book right out of the book.

Thank you. Yeah. So this chapter is really about how do we build up assumptions and expectations in our heads about what we’re supposed to do, right? So a lot of us not all, but a lot of us were raised to believe that we would grow up to become something and we would follow a path. So we might major in a particular discipline, or we might get our first job or our second job in a particular company or organization, and then we would go ahead and then go ahead, and we would climb some kind of a ladder, and we would advance, and we get promotions and bonuses, and we would work our way up, and it’s some kind of consistent, linear path. Well, as many of you know now, the world is not working that way so much anymore. There are layoffs all the time. There are mergers and acquisitions, and then, you know, and then people change their minds and want to do something different. We know that most people have at least two careers in their lifetimes, many, much more than that. So careers are not formed in a straight line. So I say to people, especially young people who are just starting out, don’t think that you have to figure out right now what you want to do with the rest of your life.

Figure out what you want to do for the next couple of years and work at that and grow your skills and give yourself a chance to just understand what it’s like to be out in the world of work. I end up talking to a lot of college seniors or kids who have just gotten out of college, like, friends of mine, their kids and things. I don’t really coach, you know, emerging new kids, get right out of school that much. But it’s a shock when you first get out of school and all of a sudden, even though you know it’s coming, it’s still a shock to all of a sudden be in adult land. And yet there’s this story that we’ve all grown up with, which is, well, I’m supposed to become this thing, and then I’m supposed to follow this path. And we call them career paths, don’t we? Right? Well, guess what? There are exits, and there are all kinds of ways to go off the path, and that’s okay. In fact, you should, I think, love it.

That the fact that it’s such a myth that career is a straight line and how we’re educated. There’s a lot of unlearning unlearning what we’re familiar with, what our parents told us because they love us so much. It’s really hard.

I mean, my father had the same job his whole career for the most part. He had a couple of other jobs earlier in his life, but he was the model of a straight line career, and I think that was probably more the norm in his generation. And so I grew up with that. So it would make sense that baby boomers like myself would send that message to our kids. And it’s not wrong that people have done that. It’s logical, but it’s really not what’s happening out there now. And that’s why I think it’s an important message to get out there so that people aren’t still running with those assumptions and then kneeling. That’s what happens is people then feel badly that they’re changing their minds, as if there’s something wrong with them. Oh, I’m not following the path. What’s wrong with me? And there’s nothing wrong with you. In fact, you’re actually in the norm.

Yeah, exactly. Instead of feeling like an outsider. So Rusty, just send a great question. How do you talk how do you talk to someone who was raised to follow a path, follow the rules? What helps them to get nonlinear?

Well, I think explaining to them that times have changed, that probably the rules of the road as they were taught, were the rules of the road at a time when the role models in their lives really those were the rules. And so there are a lot of well intentioned people in your life who gave you the kind of guidance that they thought was right for you and they didn’t know that the world was going to move in this direction. And so forgive them. They did what was right by you. And you need to see and you can even say look around you. If you look at most of your friends or you look at most people around you, most people are not staying in the same role their entire careers or the same functional area or the same industry, even. So, there’s nothing wrong with changing gears. Some people get uncomfortable with that still anyway, for other reasons. I’ve seen clients who really, really want to try something different, but then they get anxious about having to take a salary cut to try something new. And that poses some dilemmas for people. I understand that.

But you have to find the right balance for yourself in terms of what is it that you’re willing to be flexible on in terms of for the sake of finding a happier place for yourself with your career and your work?

Yeah, there’s a question. I feel like there’s some questions rushing in. Hey, Michael.

Bryan.

Thanks for watching. Michael is also part of our group. I just love learning from him and question from Jenny. It seems like the themes in your book are timeless and also super relevant right now with what’s going on in the work of work. So for people who are contemplating reading about the book, whether you should pick up the book or they should talk to you or work with someone like you, what are some of the things that they should consider?

Well, thank you for that, Jenny. I would agree with you totally. And I tried to make it as timeless as possible. I do think that I almost was pleasantly surprised that as the book came out, that there was a lot of talk now about this great resignation and about more and more people are leaving their jobs. I still think there’s a lot we need to understand about what the great resignation means. But I think one sort of general theme that seems to be coming up is that more and more people are less willing to follow the party line, so to speak. They are less willing to just do as they’re told, come back to the office full time, for example, do your job this way or that way. And people, for one reason or another, seem to be more comfortable walking away from a particular job and find something else they want to do. It seems as though people are feeling freer to make choices about the work they do far more than I’ve ever, ever seen before. So in that way, I think that a book like this can be helpful to them, actually, especially at the end of each chapter, where I have reflective questions and guiding activities which I think can help provoke the kind of thinking that people need to do in terms of thinking about what’s next.

So it’s one thing to say, okay, I don’t want this. I’m going to resign. It’s another thing to say, what am I going toward? The other piece of the book that I think is vital to people who are leaving their jobs now, if they’re leaving and not knowing what they’re going next to, is the resources section of the book, which I really very carefully crafted to give people cutting edge information and resources that will tell them, how do you look for a job in this day and age? Because if the last time you looked for a job was even ten years ago, eight years ago, it’s a very different world looking for work now, and you really need to know the strategies for doing that. So I provide some resources for that and a whole world of other resources so that people go in knowing what they’re doing, because people think it’s a matter of just looking online for jobs and submitting resumes. Not even close.

The next part we’re transitioning into is intriguing, and I think it’s relevant to what we’re talking about. And it’s a dilemma. Like, people often just default to what they’re good at, and that’s what they go into. And I love these kind of affirmations and these lovely comments, one from Cindy, for instance. It seems that many people are willing to ask for what they want and need. That’s really refreshing. Frankly, I didn’t see that earlier on in my career. And so, yes, the reflective questions are very helpful, and it is very different even in the last two years. So. Thank you, Cindy.

Yeah. Thank you, Cindy. I appreciate that. Yes, this is another favorite topic of mine, don’t default to what you’re good at, because and again, this ties back in with probably some of the earlier narratives that we heard when we were little well intentioned adults giving us a pat on the back, oh, you are so good at math. When you grow up, you should be an accountant or you should be an engineer. Look how good you are with those Legos or whatever it is. And so there’s sometimes very well intentioned teachers, adults in your life who really encourage you. And in some ways, it’s very, very positive and a very good thing. I think sometimes it can go a little too far, and depending on who you are and how impressionable you are, you might take that all the way through college and beyond, or maybe it even gets planted in subliminally. But what happens is, I think there’s still an overriding message that comes across, says, think about what you’re good at and go in that direction. And that’s fine to some degree, but make sure that if you’re good at it, that it’s also something you actually enjoy doing.

Because the example that I give in the book, and I give almost everybody I speak with, especially clients, is I’m really good at cleaning toilets and I hate cleaning toilets. And I love the fact that there are people out there who love to do cleaning activities. Maybe they don’t like cleaning toilets, but I use that as an example because I think fairly universally, there’s probably not a ton of people out there who enjoy that activity, yet they might be really good at it. I’m really good at it. I just hate it and I don’t like doing it. So I’m not going to choose to do that for my work. Right.

Yeah.

But I do come across a lot of people, when they start to think about what their options are, when they are thinking about making a change. I’ll hear the words out of their mouth, well, you know, I could do this, I could do that. And it’s sort of like in this hesitant voice. And it’s much harder for them to come from what I call the inside out, where it’s more about, you know, where they really light up and they say, I want to do this, I want to do that. And that’s what the key is to this chapter. It’s actually the key to the whole book.

Yeah. I see these funny comments coming in. Like Michael Bryan said, he’s good at TikTok, which he really is, and it doesn’t pay. There you go.

Michael, you are good at tik tok I’ve seen you.

Yeah, the singing and the rapping, lip syncing. I mean, there’s a lot of talents. Yeah, I can sidetrack so easily there, but I think the five and six are related. Tammy, I’m so glad we’re bringing up these really tough conversations. And if you’re watching this or where you are, please share your questions, your. Reflections and comments. As you can see, we’re not annoyed by comments. We’re here to help you out for the time we have. And to me, the same thing. I was good at project management, for product management. I was good at least with sold by clients and some colleagues. And I realized over time I didn’t want to do that anymore. Even though everything on my resume says, okay, you were successful at it, you’re being recommended. You can still see a lot of the LinkedIn recommendations which put me in this like a perpetual mode to one, oh, I have to do more. I have to keep seeking this career path because that’s the only one I can get paid for. And I’m a responsible person, adult. But I realized the Socalled success, like you said, is not a destination. In fact, for us to explore something with or without fear.

There’s kind of that there’s a pivot.

And there’s that dip.

Oh, the dip feels so uncomfortable that you got to learn something before you’re good at it, before you can claim success. So let’s chat.

Yeah, well, and I think that people have different definitions individually, what success means to them. Again, that’s presented to people what success means to them. So I think you have to decide for yourself, what does that mean to you? But I’ve heard we hear phrases like, oh, they have arrived. You know, they’ve arrived at success when they’ve either won an award or they’ve gotten a big bonus. They’ve arrived. And I think it’s a more iterative process. People will have a certain level of success in something that they’re doing, and then they move on and they they start doing something else and then they might have more success. But it’s up to them. It’s in the eye of the beholder, how they hold on to that. But I think it’s something that gets tied in with our professional lives in ways that can put a lot of pressure on us to achieve something that isn’t necessarily tied to our own value system. And then we’re working so hard toward this kind of arbitrary place of success as if it’s a place we have to arrive at. And I really wanted to dispel that.

And I love this topic as well as the one coming up, but for instance, the way I define success, as you’ve always asked me the question, Tammy, to define that for myself. So I think both of us are kind of similar in that way. Like, we work late and we love sleeping in. So for me, the success is that I can sleep till 09:00 if I choose to, and I don’t book any meetings before 11:00 a.m. My local time. I know that sounds ridiculous to a lot of people. And my other success, looking back in 2009 and the two years before that, when my dad was hospitalized for cancer, end stage, I couldn’t be there for him. I could only go back to China like two weeks at a time, come back to a pile of work I couldn’t really get done. And versus now with my mom’s physical therapy, I work from home, I get to take her to do all these things. To me, that is huge.

Absolutely, I agree. And that’s your definition of success, to create a life that works for you. You get to do the work you love, you also get to be there for your family.

Yeah, for sure. And then I think, related to the next topic, this makes me laugh so much, but I see that people really struggle to understand how networking works. And I remember especially going to these big conferences, Tammy, that you can see people approach you for so many different reasons. They want to find out how much money you make if you have a current opportunity. Right now, you’ve not you know, they don’t hand you the business card and they just walk away. But I want to really get in there.

Well, you know, it’s funny. I mean I think that the model probably many years ago was you just network for a job and then you’re done. You go to your job and you go back to your life, so to speak. But I think of networking in a very, very different way. I think of it as kind of a muscle or a habit that you develop. And it’s really about developing relationships and it’s also about getting information. It’s about learning about other people and what they’re up to and understanding what’s going on in the marketplace. It’s not just about finding out where there are openings or jobs. And I think that’s the mistake that a lot of people make is they think they just need to be talking to people only in their industry or functional area and find out where the jobs are. And that’s a very, very narrow approach. It also is probably not the most productive way to find out where there might be an opportunity. So I recommend that people just start looking for information and talk to everybody and anybody you can. Not to say that you have to talk to people all day long, but I suggest that anybody you talk to knows somebody else.

And even though the person you’re talking to might not be in your field, you don’t know who they know. So I think it’s always important to just have lots of different conversations and you can talk about yourself, but show an interest in other people and find out who they know and find out what circles they travel in or what kind of work they’re doing and not just what they do, but what do they like about it? What do they like about their job or what don’t they like, what keeps them up at night or what do they feel challenged by? Because when you listen to other people’s stories and their lives, sometimes it sparks insights in your mind about what you might want to do, or it might trigger an idea for you. Also, when you’re listening to somebody else, that way they are more likely to start asking you about you, and they’re going to feel heard and they’re going to remember that that’s going to make them want to do more to help you down the road. So I’m not saying you should listen to them so that they’ll help you down the road, but I do think that it’s more important, as Dale Carnegie said, to be interested, not interesting.

And I find that a lot of my clients who are less comfortable with networking, I tell them, don’t make it about you, make it about them. They will ask you about you, but you can start off making it about them, and eventually you will have to tell them why you wanted to talk to them and make it easy for them to help you. But just learn about other people and find out what’s going on in the world.

Yeah, isn’t that revealing? Reframe and reset your career. I know who you are.

I know who that is.

Totally.

I know he’s very late.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

It’s about being curious, building strong relationships. I like to be overly transparent and honest on these live streams sometimes, because I notice that sometimes collision and kind of the friction among people with the exact same career path. So when we grew up to say, hey, you like chocolate? Find your other friend. Yeah, eating chocolate together an ice cream is amazing. But when it comes to careers, I notice the tendency of sometimes for my mom as an artist, people tend to say, I know other artists. You should totally talk to each other and hang out. It kind of makes sense. Or, you’re a software developer, I know a software developer, you should work together. But you know what’s funny is that people started to be very judgy and very critical of each other’s work because they’re kind of in this expert space, or they sometimes in a traditional career, they even feel like in competition with each other. Whereas as an entrepreneur, which I have been for the past six, seven years, I notice, like, I look at my team, I look at Tammy as a career coach, like, I am not one. And when I get stuck, I know who I talk to would be Tammy and other people on my team.

Herman is a fantastic video strategist and editor. Anna is a great content manager. Rose is a social media expert. I don’t have to I don’t rather prefer not to rely on myself and my own expertise, but instead, I love talking to doctors and authors like Tammy, and it’s just so eye opening and you learn so much more, and you create this ecosystem for you as well. Not limited to people in your career, for sure.

I totally agree with that. And I think it gives you another perspective and it keeps you staying open and curious about what’s going on. And I say those words open and curious probably too many times a day, but I really believe in it. It’s really important to just keep your options open and think about always think about things from another perspective before you start to narrow your options, for sure.

And then now, this is a very tricky area. Any one of you are watching this. I’m not qualified. Do I belong here? I hear the struggle all the time. I felt that way earlier in my career. Like, I’m just not good, not good enough, especially by pivot in my career, even for my YouTube videos. Am I qualified to talk about something else now? I’ve done 50 zoom videos. Can I talk about Google? Meet Microsoft teams. It’s so silly, but let’s break it down. Tammy?

Yeah. So I profile two women in this chapter who both started their careers without college degrees, and really, they’re both pretty scrappy. They just both found themselves getting into organizations where the hiring manager just liked their curiosity. They asked a lot of questions and they were open and curious, and they stepped into roles where they literally didn’t I mean, they literally were not qualified and they got employed. So their examples are a bit extreme, but they’re really fun to read about, I think. But I think that the chapter is written to give their examples as extremes to show just what is actually possible, because it is possible. But I also see a lot of times people will read job descriptions and they’ll see, oh, we need six to ten years of experience, or we need you to know a certain computer language or piece of software, or you need to know this or that. And I just find that people will walk away from a job description because there’s one or two items in it that they don’t qualify for. And I want to say, don’t do that, because a lot of employers draft job descriptions based on something they saw somewhere else.

And sometimes they write things they don’t even think twice about. They’re not necessarily really care about some of those things. Some of those things are not top priorities. Sometimes they put things in by accident. Even a lot of job descriptions are not written all that carefully. So I say throw your hat in the ring unless your experience is so dramatically, you know, different from what they’re looking for. But if you see a job that intrigues you, there is no harm in putting your best foot forward and trying to throw your hat in the ring. When I say throw your hat in the ring, I don’t mean just sending in a resume. I mean putting yourself through your paces to really become a viable candidate. And there are a lot of steps to that, which I’m not going to go into right now because that would be a whole nother session here, but there’s a number of things that you really need to do. But I do think that people often will stop themselves from even learning more about a situation based on reading a job description. They shouldn’t do that.

I’ve heard that over and over again across different career path, but in particular for developers, for technologists, because new language tools systems are coming out on a regular basis much faster than when I first entered into the tech world. So I’ve heard a lot of developers say that, oh, I don’t qualify. There’s one language that I’m not familiar, just not my thing, not my stack. But I love this question from Emma Lobe.

Can you emma Lobe, who’s that? One of my all time favorite people in the whole world.

Probably the favorite person. Can you ever ask too many questions to get started in a new direction?

You know, I don’t think so and I don’t think so at all. Amelope. I don’t think you can. I guess if you ask them all to one person, it might get a little annoying, but it wouldn’t be to me. You can ask me as many questions as you want. I think that the only way you’re going to learn and figure out where you want to go is by asking questions and then listening for the answers, and then that will prompt more questions. So I would say I could see where if it appears that you’re asking a lot of questions to somebody and you’re not really hearing or listening the answers and you’re just throwing questions around, yeah, that is too many. But I don’t think that’s the question here. If you’re going to annoy someone, yeah, that’s too much. But I don’t think that’s what you’re asking. So by all means, ask away. Ask away and cast your net widely. Ask lots of different people, maybe even the same question to get a variety of perspectives and then you decide for yourself what that all means to you.

I love this question, Emma. And I realize that sometimes for me, as a YouTuber, for me to start these new brand relationships, working on videos with different brands, I tend to I need to ask a lot of questions. But I think sometimes the more questions you ask, the more familiar that you are with a structured approach so you can be strategic with your questions, is what I’m getting at. So, for instance, for me to ask a question towards the brand, it’s really about choosing whether I want to work for them or not. There’s a lot of reasons. Do they pay reasonably for a video to be produced? Do they allow me to have creative control? They’ll be like, we need to see every word, every script. The answer is yes, I don’t work for those brands. And there’s an affiliate piece which is as a creator, I recommend something. I love you know, do I get a cut? Because that pays. That can play into if this deal is a good deal or not. Some brands always pay on time, some brands don’t. That comes in net terms. I know that Emma has a lot of experience as well.

How often do they pay you? Is it net 15, net 30? These things actually make a huge difference for an individual, not so much for the company. So I love that. Reframe and reset. Great point. I feel like I need to share more lovely messages. Being enthusiastic, having a great attitude makes a huge difference. Thank you. We completely agree. And that leads to a last but most important part, I think, of our conversation about being inhuman.

Yeah. And of course, we’ve been living through this pandemic the last couple of years. We all know uncertainty is a fact of life. It was a fact of life long before the pandemic. I think it’s just been staring us in the face that much more. But this chapter really does focus on some stories of people who had very sudden and very tragic events in their lives. And as a result, those events changed the course of how they thought about their careers. It didn’t necessarily change their careers immediately. In fact, it didn’t change their careers immediately for any one of them. I focus on three people. But it is interesting how those various events did impact the way they started to think about their careers and how they really wanted to make sure that what they did choose to do next had more meaning to them, honored their values more, and really enabled them to go forward in their lives in a way that really was far more from the inside out. No doubt about it. And so I think that sometimes we have to just remind ourselves that life can change at any moment. And not to get fatalistic about anything here, but when you start to think about things like that or you read stories like this, I think it should make you stop and think, am I really living the life I want to today?

Or if the answer is no, then what can I start doing today to start stepping into the life that I really want? And usually work has something to do with that.

Love it. Love this message about uncertainty. It’s always going to be there, and we have to give ourselves a chance. Lovely. Yeah. So, Tammy, working with Book has been a huge endeavor, and I just want to I feel like I witnessed this product is a work in progress for well over a year, two years. That’s why oh, my goodness. And I really want to encourage people to check it out. Once again, it’s in the description below. It’s Tammygolarlobe.com book, but I really want you to check out her executive coaching program. She works with corporations. She’s the speaker. And the book is a very important part of it. And I love the idea of a book because it introduces you, your work to people with a pretty low entry to barrier to entry. You can just pick it up. And today we just walk through these nine different areas. And if you happen to discover this video, wherever you are after the fact, please leave questions and comments because we might be able to help you out, whatever that may be.

Absolutely.

Anything else, Tammy, that you want to talk about, like leave people with that we didn’t get a chance to cover?

I think the one parting thought I want to leave with people is if you are considering making a change, don’t do it alone. Make sure that you have a thinking partner, a coach. And again, I’m not trying to sell coaching here right now, but make sure that you have either a small network of people or people that you can bounce ideas around with, because to do it alone, you’re really limiting the view that you’re taking. And I think we are each individually almost too close to ourselves to get the perspective we need to really make, I think, good, you know, creative decisions about what we want to do when we’re ready to make some sort of a change. The one area where you have to be a little bit alone with it is that inside out piece, because you have to listen to that voice within yourself. But once you once you’re listening to that, that’s the kind of conversation you can have with a trusted person and say, you know, I keep thinking about this. It keeps coming back to me. You know, I have this gut instinct about this or this phrase keeps coming to me, something that’s just nagging at me.

What do you think about it? And maybe somebody who knows you well will say, you know what? That doesn’t surprise me that you’ve been thinking about that. I have a thought about that. And maybe they can shine a light on it in a way where maybe you haven’t been able to make sense of it yet. And that’s why I say don’t ever think you have to do this all alone because you will really limit the way that you go about it.

Love it. And this part is so important. And Tammy has been in conversations with numerous people whose stories are very relatable. She’s not just going after the world’s top 1%. So including people featured in her book, plus her lovely podcast. Work from the Inside Out encouraged you to check it out. And also, let’s see cindy, thanks again for sticking to this live stream. Setting up your team is very solid to share those inner thoughts and help you spread your wings. You don’t have to do it alone. Yes. This is so lovely. So many people hopped on today and left. Questions?

Yeah. This is great.

Yay. All right, we’re going to take us offline now. Thank you so much for coming again, Tammy. Don’t go anywhere and I will see you guys in a future lifetime soon. Bye.

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