Feisworld Podcast – Lisa Guida.MP3 (Transcribed by Sonix)

Fei: Hey hello how are you. This is a show for everyone else. Instead of going after top one person in the world, we dedicate this podcast to celebrate the lives of the unsung heroes and self-made artists.

Lisa: I knew I wanted to help women that were working in male dominated industries because what I was seeing as I talk to women was that they were wasting years in their career essentially almost waiting for permission. There are industries where that’s changing but that’s a tough haul and it takes you know it takes a lot of inner work for people to get past thinking that. Your success is dependent upon somebody else’s staying at the status quo or not moving forward.

Lisa: You would think that the bosses are always going to tell you that and they’re so busy with 8 million other things that they may not have done so. So I think it’s your responsibility to always be checking in on a regular enough basis based on your company in a way that makes sense so that you’re staying in line with what’s going on with the business at the time. I hate to hear people say that they hate their job. They dread going to work. They feel all this stress.

Lisa: And I I know honestly that most people will just stay with that. But there are also people within companies that are still have that fire in their belly. They still have that glint in their eye that they want to make things better and they can there’s ways of doing that. Just because there’s going to be change doesn’t mean everybody’s going to be threatened by it. And that in fact it could open all sorts of opportunities for you and that’s really kind of what an learnings is about

Fei: Hi guys welcome to another episode of the Feisworld podcast. This is your host Fei Wu. Today I’m joined by Lisa Guida. Who is a leadership coach for professional women who work in male dominated industries. We met through altMBA surprise Lisa on many other coaches I’ve interviewed on Feisworld such as Michael O’Brien and very soon Mike Roderick, Nicole Jansen have all made not only sustaining but incredibly successful careers doing what they do. To find out what they have in common or what makes them stand out we’re be different from one another has been the journey Feisworld has been taking on based on listener’s requests. These unsung heroes possess something the general public want to know is coaching too good to be true. How do each one of them find their target audience. For over twenty five years Lisa was the only woman in the senior leadership team meetings utilizing a Coaching Approach. She knows how to grow employees customers and businesses. She has helped to build businesses from start ups to nine figures. She has worked for clients such as Coca-Cola company 3M Victoria’s Secret Bath and Body Works and many more. Lisa talks to me about the secret to growing careers businesses and relationships and it all comes down to people from how to deal with conflicts at work managing difficult conversations to thriving in a male dominated environment. We get deep into the core of what every woman should know in a workplace. Also a quick announcement Feisworld is developing a super exciting course plus service called Reaching billion’s which is precisely about helping American or generally English speaking podcasters launch their show in China for Ximalaya FM that has 500 million listeners yes that doubles iTunes alone. So if you’re interested please visit us online cafes were all dot com for Slash course

Fei: Lisa Guida. Thank you so much for joining me and Feisworld. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for a long time.

Lisa: Thank you so much Fei so happy to be here. Thank you. So Lisa you know you have this incredible energy since we met at altMBA. And since then I’ve seen you in several groups. And I’ve noticed that whenever you’re there. It just brings comfort to me for some reason. You’re always smiling and you’re obviously confident

Fei: And your humorous. I think. So much of that comes through your content. The way I think about introducing you. You’re a you’re a writer you’re a coach and you’re a podcast or as well. Before I have so many questions about talking about your coaching business for women in particular to help you know women who work with men it’s so funny as a podcast maybe because all the women do now these days are just more concentrated for some of them than the others.

Fei: But could you guide us through maybe a rough timeline of you know where you come from like the corporate job to how long ago you maybe started the coaching business.

Lisa: Sure. So I was in a variety of corporate settings throughout my career basically in print press and printing and packaging. So for instance we worked on smart water everything from smart water labels to medical packaging to things you see in Bath and Body Works. So wide variety of customers everything you can think of that you see in consumer products basically. And I was always the only woman in senior leadership in those roles and while I had a great group of people that I worked with. There were times that it was a little trying for me and as I got out to other companies I really saw that a lot of the women really had WAY bigger challenges than I was used to working with. And part of it was that I had learned how to navigate the world and part of it was certainly the folks that I worked with. But when I decided to leave that I knew I wanted to help women that were working in male dominated industries because what I was seeing as I talk to women was that they were wasting years in their career essentially almost waiting for permission or to get noticed. They were waiting for people to comment on the great jobs that they were doing. Certainly not all of them but an awful lot of them. And there needs to be like a whole different approach in order to stand out and make sure that you’re you’re getting the recognition that you’ve earned.

Fei: Yeah I mean I was one of them. So for many years to I felt very much the same on top of that. Not only I’m a woman I also happen to be Asian. I’m Chinese and you know when you and I notice especially in certain environments that that can be very toxic. When you finally gather the courage you raise your hand you speak up and to look from other people’s faces like Who the hell do you think you are. You know like go back to your cave and hide. And you know. And I was going to say sometimes those looks come from other women. Like what do you think of. Think about that. That’s think that’s really tough when women don’t support other women I guess.

Lisa: Yeah I have. I have to say I did not experience that first hand in my career because there usually weren’t a whole lot of other women at that level. The other women that were there we all worked really really well together so there really was not any of that. But I have talked to dozens of women who have experienced just that. And it’s it’s really kind of it’s upsetting on a whole lot of levels because you’d think you’d be there to lend an ear and be of some comfort and share kind of war stories and strategies and tactics. I guess I don’t see it so much as a male female issue. I see it as an insecurity issue. So it’s almost the same response you get from from men that are insecure in terms of being there. But then there’s also that reality if if women are feeling that there’s only a limited number of positions for women say at that level that it might be a little bit more dramatic and less co-operative. I think there are industries where that’s changing but that’s a tough haul and it takes you know it takes a lot of inner work for people to get past thinking that your success is dependent upon somebody else’s.

Lisa: Staying at the status quo or not moving forward.

Fei: I think what happened with me was I always try to seek out women in upper management that I actually had a lot of respect for. I who I aspired to become. It wasn’t just someone in a very senior position. And I you know look up to her regardless. So I was being more selective about that. And I it was very helpful. Instead of like you said maybe you were some of the other women at the same career stage sometime little below little a little after where I was where I felt a lot of pressure. And it seems like there were a lot of internal politics and conflicts that were going on. But I agree with you Lisa that I feel like as a woman sometimes I have higher expectations of other women and thinking that we’re in it together. Let’s help one another. And I agree with you that sometimes men can be even more difficult more aggressive or more difficult to manage. But I guess I didn’t really have much expectation to begin with.

Lisa: You know it really is a matter of figuring out what’s going on with everybody in the room. You know as I said instead of it being all in somebodies favor if you can get motivated behind a group effort you know so. So if you’re focused for instance really is on the customers then a lot of times you can move past that. You know it’s like OK what’s best for the customer. What are we going to do this best for the customer. But there certainly are realities where and I have encountered them a couple of times in my career where it was clear that say I’m a new person came in and they simply did not want a woman in leadership and that was it. And they made it very clear that they didn’t want that. I gave it a try. In those cases and in both cases I left because it’s just in my experience I guess I respect my own time enough that I’m not going to put that kind of effort into that kind of relationship. That said though Fei I’ll tell you a quick funny story please. A guy that I thought was brilliant he was just a brilliant leader and he chose somebody that I strongly disliked to be the production manager during the week. And at that time this is years ago I worked as a production manager on the weekend and it was key for those two people to work really really well together. And this guy that he chose for her during the week I could not stand it he could not stand me.

Lisa: So it was totally mutual you know for me. It was brilliant.

Lisa: He called us both into his office and he said you know we praised both of us saying how wonderful each of us was and that he truly felt that we would make a great team and he was kind of this eccentric character. And then he brilliantly had himself called out of the office and he left and he shut the door and we both kind of sat there you know kind of quietly seething because of the scenario we’ve been put into. And we finally realized he’s not coming back is he. So we kind of looked at each other and like wow he really got us OK. And we ended up we’re figuring out how to work together and we ended up being good friends actually. So it was a matter of really a boss saying hey here’s how it’s going to be here’s how I want to figured out you guys. And he stayed out of it and we did figure it out.

Fei: One thing I feel like I’m I must ask and then the reason is that I’m excited really excited about this whole coaching series. Your line of work is fascinating and I love the fact that each one of you has found your niche like you know who your avatar is and who you’re going after and being a woman to to hear that from you and to know that there are women out there myself included look up to you and know you were there to help us solve these issues. It is just very encouraging. But there is a parallel that I couldn’t help thinking about. Where we’re living in the world starting with my generation certainly the generations before me and after me that women are now becoming more powerful not only at work but also at home. I’ve known several female friends of mine clients too who really struggle with that. That dynamics between a man and a woman at home in this case either you know partners who are husband and wives and so does this ever come up. How do you sort of articulate or dissect issues like this.

You know I think one of the challenges that we have in those scenarios is when when both parties are working both are tired when they get home if there’s children you know there’s just a lot to takes a lot of energy to to do that. So there’s a there’s a couple of things going on there. One is I think it goes a whole lot easier when you forget the whole concept of perfection and give yourself a break. That yes some days won’t be perfect. And that’s ok that’s ok. Also that parents will usually agree on how to parent. But the actual mechanics of it can also be very very different. And that can also be OK. So it’s that understanding that just because your partner doesn’t do it take care of the children or the baby the same way that you would. Doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. And I can I can remember and that was a long time ago coming home and kind of going. And stopping myself and saying well wait a second OK. This is not how I would do this. But there’s really nothing wrong with this picture. You know I got to I have to chill out. And in that case my husband was watching the kids all day that day I have to chill. So I need to step back and let it go and understand that there’s different ways. So I think that would be something that helps. Definitely. That whole idea of perfection though. And I think that’s especially a big one for women right now. Were they they put all this pressure on themselves to be perfect at work be perfect it happened to be the perfect daughter. And you’re just you’re not going to be able to do that. You’re great but you don’t have to be perfect.

Yeah yeah no I totally hear you. Some of that. It’s like what we force upon ourselves. It’s kind of our own imagination. And so guilty of that because you know I felt like my you know my dad was sort of my dad passed away. But even when he was alive he was very absent in both our lives and as a result I compensated by playing the friend the daughter and the husband and you know everything to my mom and they just became a very unsustainable role and not of certainly not a healthy one.

It’s a lot of pressure on. In your case on the on the daughter.

Yeah exactly and I’m the only child I’m going to spend that a little bit more and say that I don’t have children yet I love kids but I definitely hear and hear them from from many mothers I know.

And it just sometimes to me sometime is like almost heartbreaking to watch them you know being so private in their work and have to go to meetings I have to apologize in the middle of the media have the GO P. and unlike and they fall as we’ve been like oh we’re going to do to help you. But I also notice on top of that women are advancing their careers. You know maybe not as quickly but they work so much harder. So some women are ahead of their husbands boyfriends in terms of title in terms of income or recognition and appreciation. So I think I’ve witnessed a lot of men today really struggle with that and not just child care. Is there a way to mitigate that or manage around that you think like start a conversation somehow.

Sure. I think you know when you’re in a relationship and every marriage is different every partnership is different. There’s there’s almost like different unwritten rules in each and you have to find what’s going to work for both of you where feels supportive on the big issues so that you can get through when there’s challenging times and that sort of thing. I think anytime there’s a there’s a job change an opportunity for a job change while we want everybody to be supportive and all the rest of that. It’s a discussion because it’s not going to affect just one person it’s going to affect the adult relationships that may affect the family relationships. And I think that’s really a discussion that needs to be had. What what what are we gaining what are we losing. You know what are the opportunities and what’s the price we’re paying. So it really depends on what you’re doing and what your decisions are in terms of your family and your family life. Obviously if this was you know in a coaching session that would then go into really what are your values and what’s it what’s it for. For instance when the opportunity for certain new positions come you know a significant promotion comes up you know.

What does that really entail. And is that something that you really want. And I think sometimes there’s not enough thought that actually into that decision it’s that there’s surprise and there’s joy in there’s more money that comes from a. But wait a second what does this really mean and do I really want that number one for for our family life. But also number two for our you know career trajectories that really how I want to do things and I honestly don’t think that there’s an awful lot of time put into that. And if if if you listen to people and I say I know we’ve talked about this a little bit before one of the real complaints that I hear right now is that people aren’t having fun. They’re not having fun in their lives. It’s like everything scheduled every everything is all about you know meeting this deadline and getting to this and getting there. It’s like again. Those are choices and it’s looking at things and deciding wait a second is that really what I want.

There you listening to a face rolled podcast. I’m your host Pharaoh. Today I’m joined by Lisa Gaida who’s a leadership coach for professional women who work in male dominated industries.

My life was so hectic and even I’ve mentioned like sometime you look at the money alone you’re like oh I’m so proud of that. And yeah it is. You have to ask yourself is actually worth it. And I agree with you sometimes. You remind me literally I think within the first episode that when I spoke with an executive of a female executive from an insurance company Julia Holloway who said something that made me pause. She said women need to understand you know Brit embrace this and that the women need to understand the parallel moves are okay too and absolutely right. Sometimes safer. I’m like I’ve never heard of those before and I realize yeah we just want to keep going up up up.

And you know we never even thought about what the implications are is that even what we want exactly because then Simon Senate gave a talk that I was at one time and he talked about you know what happens when people don’t give enough thought to their careers and what happens is is that they’re in the race. So the race race becomes to get promotion raise promotion raise promotion raise and then they get to a certain level and a certain lifestyle and they’re unhappy. And again it goes back to what was the reason behind it. You know why did they want to get there. And I that I’m a big fan of parallel moves because I think it gives you a whole different world view of what’s going on in a company. It can give you all sorts of insights into not just the function of the company but the customer experience through your company. There’s a lot of advantages to it. It builds your depth of what’s really going on and if you decide to move up at that point it makes you far more confident and impactful when you get into that kind of role.

Certainly that’s what I did earlier on in my career I was an associate for so long from a technologist to a B.A. like a business analyst and finally to project management. And people said like literally what is wrong with you. How come you don’t know what you want and I learned so much like an apprentice and how my beginner’s luck I was doing well and happy.

But given your style and I love the way you raised so it makes me think that somehow Lisa you have probably given some counter-intuitive advice to some of your students people you coach. Can you think of a scenario maybe you’ve given and advise that you know the rest of the world may see it as counter-intuitive what you the to herself may see it as counter-intuitive.

I think typically in a coaching conversation we may take a look at a scenario for instance that someone may feel they’re not having the impact or they’re feeling disrespected in a meeting spoken over in a meeting. And as we go through that I ask them to really take a look at it and you know not right away but as we talked through it really take a look at it and say well this person that interrupts all the time does he interrupt just you you know does he interrupt the other men in the room and then really see if this is you know the story she’s telling yourself or is this the real reality of of you know what this guy happens to be rude and he really just talks over everybody and what’s the scenario that’s going on there and how could it be handled differently. So I am an advocate of having outside conversations to straighten things out. So there aren’t things resentments going on. You know clearly sometimes we go through and plan how to have that kind of conversation and it ends up clearing the air almost I would say nine times out of 10 the person not understanding that they were doing something that was deemed disrespectful or seen as disrespectful. So they end up having a tough and sometimes awkward conversation but they work through it and end up having a better outcome after it. And the one word of caution I would put to that is that think about you know if this is a particularly tough person in a tough conversation but you feel strongly that it needs to be had in order for your own self esteem for you to clarify what’s going on is also to think about what kind of relationship you want to continue to have with this person. And that can help you to really understand how you want to approach it.

And I think especially if you want the relation to be better and often I’ve initiated those awkward conversations and it takes someone to lead that conversation. And I agree with you and usually you end up sometimes the leg exactly like what happened between you and the gentleman. I’m sure you had your conversation. And you end up being friends on work a lot better together versus those. I have to be honest those I felt like I could never really develop a relationship with and maybe I neglected not having those conversations and just hoping that you know we’re just part ways. But I I still think being proactive is the way to go instead of waiting and hoping it will end right.

And I think you’re going to. You can sense that people that you can have that conversation with. The other thing I tell tell people I do coach a little differently than a lot of coaches I tend to ask permission but say you know can I throw out a couple of suggestions and let’s talk about those. If the conversation gets heated even even in a meeting I think it’s important that you can separate work from personal and try to do that as much as possible from the standpoint of reasonable people can disagree. But when it starts to turn disrespectful it’s OK to end that conversation and say you know what we need to continue this another time and let no emotion settle down if that’s the scenario that’s going on. I know someone who’s recently gone through a series and in fairness to all the people involved they’ve been under enormous amount of stress prolongs stress. So it’s not surprising at all that tempers flared and that’s how they’ve decided to handle it now as a group if it starts to get too heated. They they all agree to stop. And I think that’s very wise because they worked together for quite a while. And it’s just the stress level is unsustainable. So they’ve got to find their own ways to make sure that they don’t damage their relationships because of while it’s been prolonged is a temporary scenario.

I feel like sometimes we going back to expectations of when we speak with a co-worker or someone who is in a very close family friend we we take that conversation way more seriously as well we prepare. And I know some people even rehearse practice with somebody else and it’s awesome that your clients can do that with you. And also love the fact that you give suggestions rather than just questions on top of questions hoping one day they will figure it out. I don’t know why I’m so intrigued by this section. I was first of all I want to just let the listeners know that you know to kind of have a deeper conversation with you and to join your individual coaching program. It’s very simple. The website is why leep dot com y el EAP dot com for us Lasch coaching and you know Elise I think your rates are reasonable. I think a lot of the coaching programs are incredibly expensive and nobody could dare to even be part of it. I think you really make it accessible to people and I know you’d devote a lot of your time and attention to them which means you know they get a lot out of what they pay for before. Before we move on I want to just I know like we shouldn’t generalize men and women’s behaviors but I wonder I feel like there are a lot of ever where I work I feel like there are some overlaps there and is the possible for you to remember recall the advice that you have given perhaps like what are some of the typical behaviors from men versus women like what are what did maybe a scenario where you know if a woman is listening right now could think about approaching it differently.

There’s a couple of things. One is going to be general but I think it’s so important that that we should take a minute to mention it and that is written communication with the ease of e-mails and text and slack and whatever. Utilizing within your companies the ease of it and the speed of it often inspires people to send scent of messages that with some thought they wouldn’t have sent but also leads to oodles of miscommunication. You know what I tell people is for God’s sakes. Once you get to the third e-mail pick up the phone go walk down the hall go see the person stop cease seeing eight million people on it to cover your butt. Don’t do that. Just go and have the conversation. You know if you if you’re in some scenario where you feel like you have to document it and everything else then document it with an e-mail is you know as good as disgust but make it nice you know just be polite make it nice. That’s number one. Number two is is schedule a time afterwards. Give it some thought. Not all you’re upset but give it some thought. And I often tell women this in terms of that whole permission thing and thinking that they’re going to get noticed for their great job to ensure that you’re on a path for getting a raise each year even.

You know I was there I got raises even when they said there weren’t raises but I did that because I continually checked in on a regular basis with my boss. I didn’t wait for them to come to me. I went to them and one of the most important questions I always asked was here’s what I’m working on here’s what I’m going to be doing. You know the next couple of weeks of the month here’s what I’m focused on based on our conversations. Has anything changed in the business that I need to know about or adjust what I’m doing. And you would think that the boss is always going to tell you that and they’re so busy with eight million other things that they may not have done so. So I think it’s your responsibility to always be checking in you know not fathering them but checking in on a regular enough basis based on your company in a way that makes sense so that you’re staying in line with what’s going on with the business at the time.

That’s smart. I certainly did not do enough of that recalling now I’m freelancing realize Oh I probably should have done some of those things differently. I mean it’s so helpful to learn in this case with a coach outside of your company when I say I really mean when I say those because when you are in the same company together sometime you’re in the trenches right. You don’t. You can see as far as what are over 6 8 inches in front of you wherever the laptop is and you don’t really think about much of anything else. And you know there’s a crisis on the company. You’re all in it together. So the person who can help you step back. In many cases I realize are the coaches who are equipped with a set of skills and the vision that you know you or people around you won’t have so right.

And there’s. If if you’ve outgrown the projects that you’re working on and you really want to move on to some other things make it easy for your boss to allow that to happen. So help somebody along that if you could pass on a project to them that would be great for them that would be a huge learning experience for them don’t just you know drop and run. Give them some support. Make sure they’re ready for it. But the more that you can help your boss have a solution when you want to move on to something else you hey I want to do this. But here’s who I think can step into this and take care of it. They’re going to love you because you’ve created you’ve given them a solution you’ve solved a problem for that new project that you’re going to take on and you’re bringing up the skill level of that new person. So that’s a great scenario to get yourself into. And it really helps you move up into projects that you want to work on.

Absolutely.

There you’re listening to a face rold podcast. I’m your host Pharaoh. Today I’m joined by Lisa Gaida who’s a leadership coach for professional women who work in male dominated industries.

You know it’s so sometimes counter-intuitive speaking counter-intuitive right the things that we learned in school. I’ve been spending years thinking about that now. I mean since my early 20s to realize I just graduated from college and I got to learn everything including the things I have been learning since I was a little kid you know from parents and generational changes and all the structure I don’t speak up don’t raise your hand. Be quiet don’t bother anybody. That’s precisely the opposite of what we’ve been talking about.

So Lisa I would love for you introduce your new program or I don’t know how to call it like your new project program and learning that I feel like everybody around me is talking about many of them have been involved. Tell us how he came about and why.

Sure. So we originally had a program kind of our version of a TED talk within the art MBA community. So it was for alumni by alumni and Josh Jackson and some others. And I coordinated that and we did that for over a year it was within the alt MBA community so we wanted a place where people could share their knowledge their expertise about something with the group. And as this has gone along and we talked about you know how what’s the next step what’s the next stage. It became clear to us that we wanted to open it up to folks who had you know in addition to the old MBA folks but other folks that are interested in looking at things a little bit differently you know challenging typical thinking about that but also having the opportunity to be involved in a deeper conversation. So every Friday at 3 o’clock we have a different presentation and I realize that’s a ridiculous topic but it was the one that was agreed upon for like global people to attend. It is 3:00 on Fridays. Someone gives a 15 minute presentation and then there is a half hour discussion. I must tell you that often the discussion is the best part of it and it’s. The discussion is only there only for the folks that are there live. We do record the presentation and we post the presentation as a podcast. Kind of a quick and dirty podcast on anchor slash and learnings.

So it’s I heard of part of that and it was phenomenal. I was in a session I still remembered today in classical music which I have nothing to do with but I do have a client I work for who happens to be in the industry and I was learning so much I mean the guy was very gentle and soft spoken and that discussion after that was phenomenal. I mean seriously I was blown away.

It really is it’s and it’s it’s funny it’s big. They are a wide variety because we have a wide variety of people doing really interesting things. It’s not an advertisement for your business. It’s really it’s it’s an opportunity to present your idea your assertion and teach a couple of things about it and then give some action steps to take place and then have a discussion. So I find myself sometimes going to something that really isn’t something that’s my interest area and I’ll be there out end up being fascinated by something and thinking about it during the week saying wow I wasn’t interested in that at all but it’s related to this over here and it’s just fascinating the connections that can get made by the ideas that are presented. So we looked at that and as we moved it over to and learnings and that’s on learnings with this dot CEO that’s the Web site so you can sign up to see to get on the mailing list to hear about the presentations and get the info. It’s on Zoom every Friday 3 o’clock. We also decided to have some live events workshops and we are starting to do consulting with companies that are scaling that are growing their business and basically working with them in a smart way to intentionally grow their business so look at the challenges they have before they’re just reacting to oh my god we don’t have the right people. We hadn’t looked at our processes that kind of thing and I’m so intrigued by that.

So when you say you work with companies does that doesn’t mean you personally are you and Josh or what does that model look like.

It’s basically the two of us it’s you know depending on the company. It’s usually the two of us but we typically what we do is go in and we have a conversation and it’s the kind of company that we’re looking to work with is a company that’s going to experience rapid growth or they’re in the in the midst of it and they really hadn’t planned for it but they recognize now that they’ve got to take a look at it and there’s typical things that go on in companies that are going to go through growth. And if we’re with them before they start you know one of it is it’s asking the right questions. You know why do you want to grow. What’s what’s the point of doing this and truly understanding this and making sure that their staff understand why they’re doing this so that everybody is aligned. But looking at you know what are the big problems. A lot of time do there. Will their processes work. That’s a huge issue when you start to grow and what worked with 10 people and 20 people suddenly falls to pieces when you have 100 people. So we actually use that and learnings framework on Fridays to help do peer to peer training inside companies train them in that presentation process that we use because it’s simple it gets the point across. It’s very succinct and it’s reusable again which I think is really important. You know you’ve got to get that going on within your company.

I mean how do you. Eight years a thing.

So like you could probably be very comfortable and doing nothing but right now. And what we’ve been hearing so far is that you coach individuals you know women how to deal with men and deal with the ever. You know sometimes toxic sometimes challenging corporate environment but on top of that you know you’re one of the creators for and learning. Where do you get all your energy for that and why.

Why do this and is so enthusiastically passionately Orka these things.

There’s there’s a couple of reasons. One is I am absolutely passionate about people’s time. I hate to hear people say that they hate their job. They dread going to work. They feel all this stress. And I I know honestly that most people will just stay with that. But there are also people within companies that are so that still have that fire in their belly. They stole that glint in their eye that they want to make things better and they can. There’s ways of doing that on the front line.

You know certainly it helps more if you have senior leadership working with you.

Oftentimes it’s middle managers that are the touchpoint. I’ll be honest with you you can get senior leadership to get people on the frontline. Oftentimes it’s that the people in the middle and it’s a matter of getting people to enroll to trust to understand that just because there’s going to be change doesn’t mean everybody is going to be threatened by it. And that in fact it could open all sorts of opportunities for you and that’s really kind of what learnings is about.

What do you need to unlearn in order to go further and I just saw this quote today right before we got on this call and it was in an article on Harvard Business Review haave a plate of all.

He’s the CEO of Volkswagen Audi retail in Spain and he said this is a quote from him saying leadership today is about and learning management and learning being human and I think that is so key to what’s going on right now because of the amount of automation the amount of AI how that’s going to fit into industries and really the soft skills the being able to collaborate. Being able to have you know real conversations without people getting fearful of their jobs is what’s going to make the difference. It’s really interesting for me because because it’s so interesting like the problems that might present themselves are something like projects are taking longer. And the immediate thought is we don’t have the right people. They may have absolutely the right people but there could be all sorts of games being played and things going on that the trust levels been broken and there’s ways to rebuild that. So it’s understanding what the really deeper things are that are contributing to the problems.

That reminds me of the most challenging you are the most proud project I’ve ever worked on.

Not going to name any company is to redesign the company’s Web site literally with all 300 people involved in the rounds of revisions reproval and all the unforeseen stakeholders. But if what happened was the project started and ended twice and everybody had already left the company for one reason or the other. So I literally Tony Robbins my team and they say look it’s not the people the process is broken. This is all we’re going to navigate it. When I said it with such confidence I actually was like oh well we’ll see how it goes. I mean there’s no magic could just fail for the third time and we did it. And there was another I remember after design that developer team was from another country. Let’s just put it this way and there was a language barrier. There was a time dear friends challenge and there are a lot of internal conflicts between design and development. And I remember at one point one of the designers where I was working with initially said How come you didn’t yell and scream at the devolvement company. I’m thinking by the way that never works. I even told my supervisor right being nasty does not work. It does not push the boundary does not make people more productive. So I’m so glad. I’m so glad you’re saying that that people do come first. And I think we have to believe in them believe in people instead of questioning and making them work under fear. And I am in a way grateful of what I learned so now I work with the people on my team very differently and I get out of their way when they’re doing what they need to do so that I just I want to commend you on that.

That’s awesome. And I would say this both to you know two individuals that are looking at their job and maybe with confusion over that new promotion should they take it. You know what they’re doing. And I don’t mean this in a ghoulish way at all I mean this in a really really positive way. The same with companies is what is the legacy that you want to have. What do you want to be remembered for. You know Seth Godin says Will they miss you when you’re gone. What he’s talking about is you know in his case he he posts a blog every day and if it wasn’t posted every day yes people would e-mail him to see where it is. You know they would miss it. So would do what people miss your contribution are they missing it now because you’re just holding back and you’re waiting for permission for somebody to give to make those contributions. Think about how you want to be seen. And I think that helps you to make the choices that are true to your values and Choo to what you want to do with your life.

Well said Lisa and there’s just so much positive energy and I’m so grateful to have met you. Sir Elton B.A and it’s definitely likewise Faye I think I’d love your yes.

I love what you’re doing. It’s it’s you feature amazing people. There’s me again I want to thank you very much for listening to this episode and I hope you were able to learn a few things

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